/am/ - Against Men

A place to discuss all the failings of the male sex as a group or as individuals


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Anti-Porn thread #1 Anonymous 01/19/2020 (Sun) 16:04:40 No. 38
Discussion about the harms of porn
>>988 >>989 What is with people's insistence on absolutes (never harmful vs. always harmful)? >>406 > I agree that the human anorectal region is highly unsuited for many all-too-common receptive activities due to its fragility. I just think you go a bit too far by pushing the absolute (100% guarantee of damage) when the truth may be closer to the relative (there are numerous variables to consider). As I posted elsewhere: > Anal intercourse is very likely, but not absolutely certain, to result in significant anorectal damage to a receptive person. My rationale for that was explained in an old post of mine (4chan /gif/thread/9488931/#9514792 28 Oct 2016). Here is a slightly modified version: (Quoting myself) > At best, anal sex and significant anal-insertive activities accelerate or guarantee the development of anorectal health problems. That could in theory be untrue if such activities are done with ridiculously excessive care* all the time, every time. * That includes, but is not limited to: ruling out preexisting anorectal conditions (possibly caused by prior sexual trauma), always using lubricant, avoiding lubricants that irritate/damage the rectal lining, avoiding enemas (all enemas, hyperosmolar or otherwise, probably remove the rectum's protective mucus barrier), always using a condom (particularly in the absence of an enema), never thrusting too rapidly ("too rapid" could vary for different people, at least for the anal tissues), never inserting anything too girthy ("too girthy" also could vary), never using numbing agents (pain indicates that something is wrong — anally, but not rectally), etc. In practice using ridiculously excessive care is unrealistic — it'd be more of a chore than a pleasure. Furthermore, both ignorance and misinformation are rampant, porn sets a very bad example that some viewers get ideas from, and people with [self-]destructive tendencies are having a field day.
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>P-Porn is just fantasy! Do you want to ban violent video games too?! Cumbrains now and eternally need to shut the fuck up. The study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28685211
>>1067 >>1067 I never understood the "it's just a fantasy" excuse, anyways. Obviously it was never just a fantasy, but like, what percent of people wouldn't want their fantasies to become a reality? I want all my fantasies (sexual or otherwise) to happen, personally. I don't get this. People fantasize precisely because it's not their reality at the moment?? That's the whole point. If given the choice, they'd make it a reality. If the only thing keeping them from committing sexualized crimes is punishment (and it is), how is that not concerning?
>>1067 My favorite part of that argument is how they compare something that's entirely artificial to something that involved real people and is entirely founded on abuse and exploitation of others. You can't even compare it to movies, at least the movie industry has standards. Though it is prone to degeneracy like the porn industry, I'd say it's better only because at least they don't film actual rape on screen
>>1084 Many people fantasize about killing others. What do you think is going through their mind when they say "I'm going to kill you?" They fantasize about the action but not the consequences because their imagination is limited. Are you saying those with rape fantasies actually want to be raped? Self-denial, not even delayed gratification, is a part of maturing: be careful what you wish for. If the only thing keeping them from committing crime is punishment (and it is), how is that not concerning?
>>1112 >Are you saying those with rape fantasies actually want to be raped? Kind of, except that people with typical 'rape fantasies', from what I can tell, generally want to be 'raped' by exactly the type of person they're attracted to/be made to feel irresistible to their ideal guy, usually. Almost none of the "I want to be raped" girls are actually fantasizing about the realities of most rape (though there are some women that, I think, due to trauma, are 'into' especially traumatic scenarios and not just idealized situations that involve their unattainable, hot famous actor dude physically "proving" to them how 'irresistable' they are). There's a difference between men who are very involved in the disgusting and evil details of rape fantasies, murder, and get turned on by every gory and horrific detail, and women who are idealizing the circumstances regarding rape. Men are turned on by the gruesome details, where women typically overlook them. I'd say both of these type of people want these fantasies to actually play out. It's up to you whether or not you consider extremely constructed and thought out rape play scenarios with their favorite actor, to be actual rape, whereas men really do want to rape and murder women and would take pride in breaking, destroying, and actually murdering women.
>>1124 There are women with rape fantasies who know they are fantasies and don't actually want to be raped or lie to themselves about the reality, please don't ask me how I know.
>>1125 In the case of women who 'fantasize' about traumatic situations, wouldn't you say these are more like intrusive sexualized thoughts, rather than fantasies? Especially for those who have experienced them before? It seems to be a lot of maladaptive coping, tbh. I don't know that I'd consider maladaptive coping to be fantasizing, personally. I don't think male fantasies are typically something they don't want, and they don't feel shame over them, either. Definitionally, "fantasiz/e/ing" seems to involve actual desire/want, according to most dictionaries. That's always how I thought of it as well. Not just any imaginary situation, but something you genuinely want. That's why the "it's just fantasy" doesn't make sense to me. I've never considered "fantasizing" as being just a synonym for imagining. Wouldn't you say though that the situations and pressures that might result in these kind of fantasies for women aren't really something that men would typically experience, anyways? It's not like men and their problematic fantasies come about in the same ways as women and their problematic fantasies. I don't think the complicating circumstances that often cause traumatic rape 'fantasies' in women are a thing for men.
>>1130 Okay to be clear; I've masturbated over situations that I'd rather die than actually experience in real life.
>>1131 How do you think you developed interest in those situations?
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I fully expect the amount of cases involving a man who frequently watched violent porn murdering a woman to increase in the next few years. Some high-profile cases of this type we've heard of in the past year or two were Eurydice Dixon, Grace Millane, and Tess Richely, and these were only the highly publicized ones.
>>1136 absolutely. i actually watched a video by jim cant swim recently and they focused a bit on the fact that stephen mcdaniel was driven to murder because of his addiction to violent/murder themed pornography. interesting that when men make an offhanded comment without calling for the censorship of pornography, no one objects to the claim that it does warp people, and it is seen as a reasonable assumption/a given. only when women say it is it magically not capable of influencing or desensitizing men.
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Andrea Dworkin's response to "It's just fantasy!!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLWgGdFEC-8
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Scrotes are seething about Jenna Jameson telling her story about being groomed and trafficked into porn. https://twitter.com/jennajameson/status/1280309394966642688
>>44 I'm a little suspicious of Dr. Judith Reisman. She has some strange ideas about various things and isn't taken very seriously by mainstream scientists. See this quote. "Dr. Riesman informed that August body, “Thanks to the latest advances in neuroscience, we now know that emotionally arousing images imprint and alter the brain, triggering an instant, involuntary, but lasting biochemical memory trail. Pornography triggers a myriad of endogenous, internal, natural drugs that mimic the ‘high’ from a street drug.” Those testifying highlighted the “grave consequences” of pornography’s being available 24/7 and how it resulted in an epidemic of sexual violence toward women and children. This testimony appeared to be a significant influence on the Bush administration’s “War on Porn.” The only problem with Dr. Riesman’s elegant “erototoxins” theory was that facts stood in the way of her opinion and testimony. The overwhelming scientific evidence is that the increasing availability of pornography has been inversely related to the number of sex crimes committed." https://web.archive.org/web/20120913054714/http://biomedicalforensics.com/AAFS/Psychiatry_and_Behavioral_Sciences_EBook.pdf I think it's important to be objective.
>>1196 politics affects science. most researchers are pro-porn and I genuinely believe this affects their research. there's plenty of research confirming the harmful effects of pornography, anyways, too. the problem with the enlightened "objective" types is that they fail to account for or acknowledge the fact that popular narratives affect science. there was plenty of science "confirming" that neonates and babies under a year old felt absolutely no pain, and this obvious bullshit dominated science and medicine for decades, until the mid to late 80s, in fact.
now this is almost comical but still unnerving http://internet.gawker.com/a-porn-site-invaded-reddits-anti-masturbation-community-1680882343 porn sites raided r/nofap and pornfree, like that tells us that porn sites view these communities as threats to their work
>>1206 >Katie's chief job—just like the jobs of legions of "social media managers" and "community coordinators" at non-NSFW companies across the internet—is to keep people thinking and talking about her employer's brand. Considering that this blog post exists at all, she's doing it well. This is true and I hate this shit.
had a stroll through the r/sexoffendersupport subreddit. you guys would be so totally not shocked to find how many cases seem to be allegedly or admittedly a result of the "porn pipeline"
>>1206 she shows up in a lot of threads to defend ph. i remember when the rose kalemba and avri sapir stories came out, she went in there to try to smear them while another dumbass redditor got the two women mixed up and declared roses story to be false because he couldn't read twitter usernames i guess. the post was locked due to "misinformation" and she was highly upvoted despite doubting a woman who had a similar story in the same thread, while claiming ph never does that. i've given up on reddit, they eat this shit up. they believe that most women in porn or prostitution love it and that it's like working at mcdonalds, and if anyone dares say otherwise they're downvoted to hell.
>>44 > “Pornography triggers a myriad of endogenous, internal, natural drugs that mimic the ‘high’ from a street drug. Addiction to pornography is addiction to what I dub erototoxins—mind altering drugs produced by the viewer’s own brain.” - Dr. Judith Reisman >>1196 > I'm a little suspicious of Dr. Judith Reisman. She has some strange ideas about various things and isn't taken very seriously by mainstream scientists. Are you suggesting that her quote in post 44 is wrong because of those reasons you specified? If so, then that is a logically-fallacious ad hominem argument. Refute the claims directly if you can; don't attack the claimant in order to suggest the claims are wrong. > "The overwhelming scientific evidence is that the increasing availability of pornography has been inversely related to the number of sex crimes committed." > https://web.archive.org/web/20120913054714/http://biomedicalforensics.com/AAFS/Psychiatry_and_Behavioral_Sciences_EBook.pdf 1. Where are the supporting sources for that? I don't see any in that PDF. 2. Several articles and studies quoted in Trends & Associations (>>391) point out that: (a) Some people are inspired by and may even seek to emulate what they see in pornography, even violent pornography. (b) Exposure at least to violent pornography is associated with both coercion and violent behavior in a sexual context by some viewers. 3. There is one major problem with the PDF you referenced: In the section titled "Pornography and Sexual Violence: Is There a Connection?" it seems to equate sexual violence with "sex crimes." These are two distinct topics. Not all sexual violence may be prosecuted as a sex crime, perhaps due to regional legal differences, a victim's fear of reporting the violence, varying severity of the potential and/or actual consequences involved, etc. (Note that "erotic" might be a more appropriate term for non-procreative and non-genital erotic activities, but common usage of the term "sexual" makes no distinction, so I won't either beyond providing this footnote.)
>>1196 > I think it's important to be objective. I agree. "Pornography has become a primary source of sexual education. At the same time, mainstream commercial pornography has coalesced around a relatively homogenous script involving violence and female degradation. Yet, little work has been done exploring the associations between pornography and dyadic sexual encounters: What role does pornography play inside real-world sexual encounters between a man and a woman? Cognitive script theory argues media scripts create a readily accessible heuristic model for decision-making. The more a user watches a particular media script, the more embedded those codes of behavior become in their worldview and the more likely they are to use those scripts to act upon real life experiences. We argue pornography creates a sexual script that then guides sexual experiences. To test this, we surveyed 487 college men (ages 18-29 years) in the United States to compare their rate of pornography use with sexual preferences and concerns. Results showed the more pornography a man watches, the more likely he was to use it during sex, request particular pornographic sex acts of his partner, [and] deliberately conjure images of pornography during sex to maintain arousal[...]." "Pornography and the Male Sexual Script: An Analysis of Consumption and Sexual Relations." Archives of Sexual Behavior. 2016 May; 45(4): 983-94. PMID 25466233. doi:10.1007/s10508-014-0391-2. Epub 2014 Dec 3. [Use care when quoting this study due to the erratum: the abstract text was corrected.] "This study aims to report the epidemiology of sexual violence (SV) perpetration for both female and male youth across a broad age spectrum. Additionally, the etiology of SV perpetration is examined by identifying prior exposures that predict a first SV perpetration. Six waves of data were collected nationally online, between 2006 and 2012, from 1586 youth between 10 and 21 years of age. Five types of SV were assessed: sexual harassment, sexual assault, coercive sex, attempted rape, and rape. To identify how prior exposures may predict the emergence of SV in adolescence, parsimonious lagged multivariable logistic regression models estimated the odds of first perpetrating each of the five types of SV within the context of other variables (e.g., rape attitudes). Average age at first perpetration was between 15 and 16 years of age, depending on SV type. Several characteristics were more commonly reported by perpetrators than non-perpetrators (e.g., alcohol use, other types of SV perpetration and victimization). After adjusting for potentially influential characteristics, prior exposure to parental spousal abuse and current exposure to violent pornography were each strongly associated with the emergence of SV perpetration-attempted rape being the exception for violent pornography. Current aggressive behavior was also significantly implicated in all types of first SV perpetration except rape. Previous victimization of sexual harassment and current victimization of psychological abuse in relationships were additionally predictive of one's first SV perpetration, albeit in various patterns. In this national longitudinal study of different types of SV perpetration among adolescent men and women, findings suggest several malleable factors that need to be targeted, especially scripts of inter-personal violence that are being modeled by abusive parents in youths' homes and also reinforced by violent pornography. The predictive value of victimization for a subsequent first SV perpetration highlights the inter-relatedness of different types of violence involvement. Universal and holistic prevention programming that targets aggressive behaviors and violent scripts in inter-personal relationships is needed well before the age of 15 years." "Predicting the Emergence of Sexual Violence in Adolescence." Prevention Science. 2018 May; 19(4): 403-415. PMID 28685211. doi:10.1007/s11121-017-0810-4. "Pornography, Sexual Coercion and Abuse and Sexting in Young People's Intimate Relationships: A Europ
>>1280 >truncating instead of rejecting the post as too long Continued: "Pornography, Sexual Coercion and Abuse and Sexting in Young People's Intimate Relationships: A European Study." Journal of Interpersonal Violence. 2018 Oct; 33(19): 2919-2944. PMID 26951609. doi:10.1177/0886260516633204. Epub 2016 Mar 6. "Problematic Pornography Use and Physical and Sexual Intimate Partner Violence Perpetration Among Men in Batterer Intervention Programs." Journal of Interpersonal Violence. 2018 Nov 21; 886260518812806. PMID 30461344. doi:10.1177/0886260518812806. Online ahead of print.
>If sex workers were respected and supported, they wouldn't be exploited. Because you don't exploit people who you respect and support. I literally just saw a tweet saying this lmao like how dumb is this person? People highly respect and support children, but they are still exploited. Pedophilia is a literal thing and it's illegal. So basically this person is saying we can stop all abuse if we were nice... Perfect
>>1310 If sex workers were truly respected and seen as people no one would buy sex from them in the first place. They truly delude themselves if they think any of their clients will ever respect them beyond a surface level.
>>1310 Even if it were true that punters somehow respected sex workers or that by legitimizing sex work it would cause them to "respect" these women, they really disregard the fact that there will always be a large portion of the population of males, honestly, that feels no respect towards basically anyone because of the extreme entitlement patriarchy instills in them. A lot of men have no "respect" for anyone but themselves. Slogans aren't going to change these men. This is a much larger issue that can't be tackled by "sex work is work". Women need to understand how dangerous sex is, period. It's extremely dangerous to put yourself in these positions with even men you "know", and it's nowhere near sensible to make yourself that vulnerable with many men for money. There is no rationalizing that kind of foolishness that could so easily go so wrong.
I met a "nice" guy, but he's a pornsick. We haven't met in person yet, but he only talks about anal sex and sadistic practices out of porn. Do you think I can change his mind? Or is he just going to try to make me prudish?
>>1374 It all hinges on the answer to one question: does he admit it's a problem?
>>1374 You mean he wants to have anal sex and sadistic sex? Why would you even want to meet this guy?
>>1374 >He only talks about anal sex and sadistic practices out of porn he doesn't sound very "nice" >Do you think I can change his mind? No, sounds like he'll be overly defensive of his precious porn. Though feel free to discuss the ethics of watching porn and see where that gets you. World's in a pandemic, he doesn't sound worth it.
>>1374 No, just leave him alone jesus christ. This is why you guys get into bad relationship after bad relationship, you think that you can change men even after they show you their true colors. FYI if he watches sadistic porn he is not a nice guy.
>>1374 Make it about putting things up his butt and hurting him IMO It's not going to end well but it might make for more entertaining conversation.
>>398 >boobs the size of two watermelons >15-16
I don't think porn will disappear for a long long time. What can be done in the mean time to lower its damage? More female porn directors are becoming prominent and "female friendly" is a thing although I think the term is pretty demeaning.
>>1472 Honestly, like, it really sucks, but I think the onlyfans thing might not be so bad in that these girls are mostly creating their own content and in doing so I THINK it tends to be less violent and abusive (less emphasis on gangrape etc). I'm seeing a lot more "vanilla" ish content coming from these onlyfans girls, and at least there's no middle men save for the site, at least the girls have automatic copyright, etc. I also think it's better than camming because camming, I assume, puts them in more of a frenzied mentality where they're pressured to please right on the spot, so they're more likely to do extreme things to themselves either in private chat or on the main stream, whatever.
>>1472 Tbqh I do. And it's cause is rooted in misogyny of course. Because like you mentioned, as more women get into roles of power when producing porn, so will the men who demand the awful shit decide to leave and be "anti porn". They're not into to whatever women make be it hard bdsm shit ort he soft sensual kind. It will be then shown as the good men being pure and anti degradation (even though they get off on it) vs the evil corrupted women who are promoting it. I'm seeing it now already with pornhub getting backlash for being exploitative towards rape victims gaining attention. Their social media is protrayed as a woman is managing them so it's easier for men to start hating them. It's like nofap is anti porn but it's purely from the perspective of men who are in their 20s/30s with chronic ED feeling bad that they can't feel anything anymore and that porn made them view women like their gfs and wives as ugly and undesirable. They don't give a fuck about the reality of sex trafficking and porn being so interwoven or how rape and assault videos are the norm or how those porn actresses are realizing the demand for straight violence and snuff is getting too high for them to supply due to being uncomfortable with the content so the industry finds girls to drug and abuse them on camera. It's what men are feeling that will dictate the narrative.... Like people bring up legalizing prostitution not so women are protected. They know women won't be. The demand for legal prostitutes at any age is SO high, supply happens only through trafficking. I remember that case I think in the US(Rhode Island?) where they mistakenly legalized it. And trafficking rose. It's happened all over the EU too. These men demand women to make children yet get off on destroying our reproductive systems so much. It's heinious.
It's funny though how the NoFap community seem to miss the point that masturbation isn't entirely wrong or damaging. They fucked themselves and their dicks up with their own porn consumption, it's hard to sympathize since they're more concerned about themselves than the women who were coerced and trafficked in their gross ass male fantasies. I can't imagine how male sexuality would be without pornography or even how pornography would be without the male sexuality. It's too embedded and tied together. And I know that though there are other forms of pornography (like literotica, or audio stuff), I can't help but think that it's still all goddamn male fantasies. Also, is it even possible for men who can get off from healthy imaginations alone??
This isn't about porn but what your stand on hentai? Weebs I've seen around justify hentai because it doesn't harm women but at same time it has some of the fucked up contents humanity has every created when it comes to sick fetishes. They claim there are no consequences to such content and it's just pixels on a screen.
>>830 Why is no one even trying to fix those major flaws in those articles that were pointed out?
>>1493 I think hentai promotes this degenerate mentality of the "experienced virgin" to much to scrotes. There are stories from women who have been told by their exes that their bodies aren't like some drawn anime girl, how their breasts don't lactate after orgasm, ect. And I see how many men want inexperienced girls but still will shame and pressure them if they don't act like porn stars. You find that alot in anime where the girl is an innocent virgin until sex and then she's another whole person due to dick.
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>>1511 >crickets I'll just dump these images and fuck off elsewhere. I don't belong here. No one's listening anyway — same as everywhere else. Have fun laughing at the crazy male incel virgin with the insane fetish.
>>1577 wait, what? why don't you belong here? people are listening and agree with you, it's just that the board is slow.
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They're so desperate
>>1666 They really are. A pick-me of the highest caliber.
>>1682 Is she seriously claiming that anti rapehub is fake because of her eyebrows? Oh my god they are pathetic. I love seeing replies calling out how ugly porn is nowadays especially under porn stars who hate seeing victims speak out tweets. I hope it continues. Does anyone remember Shelley lubben? She past away a few years ago but she was an anti porn advocate after being in it for a bit. And some scrote Michael whitecare with other porn stars made expose videos and pages on her because supposedly she scammed people with her charity. She wasn't perfect and they said she passed away allegedly via suicide but it was amazing seeing how much effort porn addicted scrotes give when porn stars actually reveal their negative experiences. There's also the documentary The Dark Side of Porn I think it's on YouTube in parts that had an interview with a woman who was beaten by a stalker that loved her and her videos yet she as raped and brutalized.
>>1579 > why don't you belong here? As I pointed out in >>1577, I am male, I am a member of a certain class which may be looked down upon and stereotyped here, and my strongest fetish seems to be highly unusual (so unusual that I have been forced into no-fap, or at least infrequent-fap, due to an inability to keep on satisfying that fetish with new material: the Coolidge effect). If people here really would like me to stay and post more despite all of that, then perhaps I shall. > people are listening and agree with you People need to do more than merely agree with me. I don't matter; I am merely one insignificant messenger. People need to focus on and address those major issues that I've been pointing out. See the "TAKE ACTION v1" image along with material in these posts: >>391 >>397 >>406 >>830 (duplicated in TAv1) >>1280 >>1281 I've been posting about those major issues on various sites since approximately 2007. That might help to explain my impatience and frustration: I've long since lost patience and I'm unspeakably weary of feeling so very frustrated for so many years. I will admit that I have included some of my own judgments in what I wrote (which includes everything in that TAv1 image). However, as I am so keen to point out, ultimately this is not about me. Therefore if people wish to disregard my judgments, then please do so. If they take the remainder of what I have posted and use it to seriously and effectively address the major issues mentioned previously, then I will be very happy regardless.
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>>1834 > I will admit that I have included some of my own judgments in what I wrote (which includes everything in that TAv1 image). To be clear, what I mean by that are sentences containing "must" and "should:" I am calling for justice and accountability; at this point I suspect that justice will require bloodshed (one or more people taking on the roles of judge, jury, and executioner). >male Fine, fine; I'll leave after dumping these very relevant images.
>maleposting, again
https://www.reddit.com/r/BlatantMisogyny/comments/jdlhv9/i_wasnt_even_searching_for_porn/ Rapehub tries to be so "pro woman" and mainstream and funny with brands on twitter yet keeps sick shit like this out in the open. Every violent scrote has a history with violent porn. But retarded libfems hate women and would rather defend "misogyny kinks" like this than to critique it.


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